my guys, the Jazz do not have a frontcourt investment in Kyle Anderson, they traded him in the Jaren Jackson deal. he's not even on the Grizzlies, either – they waived him and he's on the Timberwolves. not sure a veteran on a minimum on another team should be factored into draft breakdowns. as you were.
Addressed that via the Kyle Anderson, and apologies. Little crazy this time of the year so sometimes can have mental error when it comes to missing some trades/moves that might have happened. Will be better.
Thanks Mike, we understand that Ace is playing at the two at the end of the year when they are working on his development for future seasons. Think everyone would be a bit surprised if Ace is a longterm shooting guard. Cheers
Apologies if criticism came off harsh but I’m not sure what about Ace is not a long term shooting guard from what we have seen this season and if anything he has been playing more forward at the end of year with all the Jazz bigs out. It’s a minor anecdote, thanks for all the effort put into the mocks.
I don't understand the celtics first pick. They have one of the best cheap gaurd shooting contracts in Pritchard, they just draft Hugo Gonzalez who is the same height, more athletic and has also shown development in his shot. Not to mention Hugo is 20 years and 66 days old and Mullens is 19 years and 359 days old which only separates them by 72 days. And even if the argument is that they play different roles, they have sam houser who plays the same way is an inch taller on contract for 3 more seasons at a reasonable price and wont be as much of a liability on defense as mullins will to start off. If the different roles argument isn't yours and its just that you think Mullins has a shot to compete for minutes, hes competing with the player with the best plus minus out of any player who has played 45 games this season. Yes Hugo THE best per 100 in the entire league and best total plus minus out of EVERY rookie. They have also gotten solid shooting and ball movement from Baylor Scheierman and just gave a contract to another shooting guard in Ron harper JR. So if the celtics did take Mullens he would at minimum would have to compete with Scheierman, Gonzalez and Harper Jr for minutes off the bench. Meanwhile you have them making an amazing pick at 40 with Veesar.
To be quite honest a mock draft that has Hannes Steinbach and Tarris Reed Jr over Chris Cenac is rare, and having Aday Mara in your top 10 is even more rare. I can see the argument for Mara as a player who if he eliminates the bad passes and only gives you those dazzling ones, develops his jumper to passible and establishes stamina to move his frame effectively for 30-35 minutes a game. But if we're going for late round home run talent Chris Cenac, makes more sense with Luka unless you are looking to completely replace Ayton, which despite his struggles has put up multiple 18pt 10reb seasons. Even if you are completely out on Cenac and are truely looking to replace Ayton, Steinbach is younger can run and jump similarly and can actually shoot it from range which if effective is another thing Luka is great at getting open shots for. To me I see Cenac a bit higher just due to his athletic fluidity and Steinbach higher than Tarris reed as Steinbach has a jumper alongside a decent inside game and similar athleticism.
To be honest though it doesnt really matter.
If i had my say and all availability is the same and the lakers still take Tarris Reed Jr, the celtics take Cenac or Hannes Steinbach with their first round pick and stick with Veesar at 2nd. The Guard room in the celtics has elite top end talent in White and Pritchard solid established prospects in Scheierman Gonzalez and Harper Jr, the wing/sf group is likely the best in the business but still thin as three of them start with Brown, Tatum, Houser, and Walsh, the bigs only talent they have on contract after this season is Queta, Garza, and Amari Williams because Vuc is likely to leave at the end of the season to get a better contract. Don't get me wrong I like Amari Williams but I think after adding Cenac/Steinbach and Veesar, he's immediately the 4th best big on the team.
The most minutes available are back up center minutes and since Garza is only at 2.5 mil a year they can afford to have him on the bench a bit more in favor of Cenac/Steinbach and Veesar. Even if you disagree with taking two centers, though both can shoot and could forseeably play on the court together, the second biggest need isn't guard talent, its wing talent. They only have Walsh of the bench if they continue to start Brown Tatum and Houser. With all availability the same, and a very solid comp to shooting off screens and being efficient and a player who is a bit older who might be able to contribute to the wing group in the same way but with less ups and downs that Mullens might with the Gaurd group, you could argue that picking Milan Momcilovic for the 2nd pick would make more sense.
In the case of taking the centers, the celtic's are taking multiple bites at the apple in developing a big with shooting capability that can space with queta on the floor, play the dunker in short pick and role action with queta passing, and take over in those actions/play together when both queta and any one of Tatum brown or houser are sitting. In my opinion this would be ideal as in the best case scenario they both develop into starting or high rotation guys and the celtics get to take advantage of having two of the most skilled small forwards which could allow them to slot brown at the SG and Tatum at SF with Queta at C and White at Pg, either Cenac or less likely Veesar at starting PF. This would also allow them to be more consistent as well as more flexible in their defensive style as there would always be a solid rim protector and week side rim protector allowing them to not have to change coverage styles depending on who is out there but Cenac provides some promise in a switch everything defense. In a medium case scenario only one of them ends up being a rotational big, but at least that area of greatest need is covered. And in any worst case draft scenario draft philosophy/ approach doesnt matter so who cares if neither of them pan out.
In the case of taking Cenac/Steinbach and Momcilovic, you are addressing both areas of need and taking a relatively bigger boom or bust swing by taking Cenac/Steinbach over mullins and tempering that with an older steadier player in Momcilovic. Where in the best case scenario you have the ability to maintain defensive consistency when replacing Queta with Cenac in drop coverage, and Houser with Momcilovic in gaurding the wing that Brown isn't Guarding while maintaining similar shape on offense. In the medium case scenario, its most likely Momcilovic cant make enough of a case to have him replace Houser's bench minutes over more gaurd-like player in Gonzalez or Scheierman, instead and Cenac/Steinbach pans out but just more of a back up center/big forward and doesn't force Houser to the bench, you've still solved your biggest problem, and depending on health and matchups a tag team of Garza Cenac/Steinbach and Amari Williams can handle the Bigs bench duties.
The ultimate argument for taking both bigs besides a starting line up of D-White, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, a fully realized Cenac/Stenbach, and Neemias Queta, is that the celtics have shown recently their ability to develop bigs really well starting with Robert williams who was amazing pre injury and very similar to Cenac in a bunch of ways. Then with Luke Kornet who went from basically a bench riding bust after seeing his minutes decline 3 seasons in a row from his sophomore season to demanding full role player minutes on the best team in the east last year and the 2nd best team in the west this year averaging 20 mpg over those two seasons. Similarly the celtics took a no-name 39th over all pick going into his third season into a, in my opinion, top center in the league this year with embiid, davis, sabonis, KP, I-hart all hurt. Basically, with their history, we can expect the celtics to develop Cenac into what we all envision him being an ultra versatile rim protecting PF, and Veesar as well as Steinbach to be somewhat of the same. I think even if we have that same energy with Mullins' development, and his athleticism holds up to NBA standards and his shooting is as consistent as it could be, he could potentially take Sam Houser's spot in the lineup but at that point you are forcing Brown and Tatum onto tougher matchups because Sam has proven he can not kill you on the defensive end in switching onto 3s and 4s where I dont see that just due to frame and age with Mullins. In that case Mullins would have to be good enough offensively where he isn't so much a complimentary piece to Brown and Tatum but more of a load bearing peace so Brown and Tatum can expend more energy defensively, which i think is less likely than Cenac/Steinbach finding away to be complimentary to JT and JB on offense while standing on their own on defense.
Very interested as to hear the reasons you have players like Mara over Morez Johnson, jayden Quaintance, cenac and Steinbach, other than the fact that he's tall. Similarly Interested in hearing why you have Tarris Reed over Cenac and Steinbach.
Hey Elias we’ve had a big there in pretty much every mock and Mullins falling there would be way too good of value to pass up. Hugo is fantastic but more of a 2/3 tweener. Different player. Appreciate the support. - from a Celtics fan
Right I see that I see mullins as a fall but similarly it seems like cenac and steinbach are also falling and cenac more so. Regardless, Hugo being a 2-3 and mullins being 2 I don't think changes anything, they're still fighting for the same slots that White and brown leave. Is your take that Mullins out-competes Baylor and Hugo?
I feel like this is under the assumption that bulls have no idea what they’re doing 😂
is that not a slightly fair assumption?
my guys, the Jazz do not have a frontcourt investment in Kyle Anderson, they traded him in the Jaren Jackson deal. he's not even on the Grizzlies, either – they waived him and he's on the Timberwolves. not sure a veteran on a minimum on another team should be factored into draft breakdowns. as you were.
Addressed that via the Kyle Anderson, and apologies. Little crazy this time of the year so sometimes can have mental error when it comes to missing some trades/moves that might have happened. Will be better.
Also Ace Bailey almost exclusively plays the 2 for Jazz. I don’t blame people not paying attention to the Jazz but seems like some obvious oversights
Thanks Mike, we understand that Ace is playing at the two at the end of the year when they are working on his development for future seasons. Think everyone would be a bit surprised if Ace is a longterm shooting guard. Cheers
He finally makes worst shot of the season!
Apologies if criticism came off harsh but I’m not sure what about Ace is not a long term shooting guard from what we have seen this season and if anything he has been playing more forward at the end of year with all the Jazz bigs out. It’s a minor anecdote, thanks for all the effort put into the mocks.
I don't understand the celtics first pick. They have one of the best cheap gaurd shooting contracts in Pritchard, they just draft Hugo Gonzalez who is the same height, more athletic and has also shown development in his shot. Not to mention Hugo is 20 years and 66 days old and Mullens is 19 years and 359 days old which only separates them by 72 days. And even if the argument is that they play different roles, they have sam houser who plays the same way is an inch taller on contract for 3 more seasons at a reasonable price and wont be as much of a liability on defense as mullins will to start off. If the different roles argument isn't yours and its just that you think Mullins has a shot to compete for minutes, hes competing with the player with the best plus minus out of any player who has played 45 games this season. Yes Hugo THE best per 100 in the entire league and best total plus minus out of EVERY rookie. They have also gotten solid shooting and ball movement from Baylor Scheierman and just gave a contract to another shooting guard in Ron harper JR. So if the celtics did take Mullens he would at minimum would have to compete with Scheierman, Gonzalez and Harper Jr for minutes off the bench. Meanwhile you have them making an amazing pick at 40 with Veesar.
To be quite honest a mock draft that has Hannes Steinbach and Tarris Reed Jr over Chris Cenac is rare, and having Aday Mara in your top 10 is even more rare. I can see the argument for Mara as a player who if he eliminates the bad passes and only gives you those dazzling ones, develops his jumper to passible and establishes stamina to move his frame effectively for 30-35 minutes a game. But if we're going for late round home run talent Chris Cenac, makes more sense with Luka unless you are looking to completely replace Ayton, which despite his struggles has put up multiple 18pt 10reb seasons. Even if you are completely out on Cenac and are truely looking to replace Ayton, Steinbach is younger can run and jump similarly and can actually shoot it from range which if effective is another thing Luka is great at getting open shots for. To me I see Cenac a bit higher just due to his athletic fluidity and Steinbach higher than Tarris reed as Steinbach has a jumper alongside a decent inside game and similar athleticism.
To be honest though it doesnt really matter.
If i had my say and all availability is the same and the lakers still take Tarris Reed Jr, the celtics take Cenac or Hannes Steinbach with their first round pick and stick with Veesar at 2nd. The Guard room in the celtics has elite top end talent in White and Pritchard solid established prospects in Scheierman Gonzalez and Harper Jr, the wing/sf group is likely the best in the business but still thin as three of them start with Brown, Tatum, Houser, and Walsh, the bigs only talent they have on contract after this season is Queta, Garza, and Amari Williams because Vuc is likely to leave at the end of the season to get a better contract. Don't get me wrong I like Amari Williams but I think after adding Cenac/Steinbach and Veesar, he's immediately the 4th best big on the team.
The most minutes available are back up center minutes and since Garza is only at 2.5 mil a year they can afford to have him on the bench a bit more in favor of Cenac/Steinbach and Veesar. Even if you disagree with taking two centers, though both can shoot and could forseeably play on the court together, the second biggest need isn't guard talent, its wing talent. They only have Walsh of the bench if they continue to start Brown Tatum and Houser. With all availability the same, and a very solid comp to shooting off screens and being efficient and a player who is a bit older who might be able to contribute to the wing group in the same way but with less ups and downs that Mullens might with the Gaurd group, you could argue that picking Milan Momcilovic for the 2nd pick would make more sense.
In the case of taking the centers, the celtic's are taking multiple bites at the apple in developing a big with shooting capability that can space with queta on the floor, play the dunker in short pick and role action with queta passing, and take over in those actions/play together when both queta and any one of Tatum brown or houser are sitting. In my opinion this would be ideal as in the best case scenario they both develop into starting or high rotation guys and the celtics get to take advantage of having two of the most skilled small forwards which could allow them to slot brown at the SG and Tatum at SF with Queta at C and White at Pg, either Cenac or less likely Veesar at starting PF. This would also allow them to be more consistent as well as more flexible in their defensive style as there would always be a solid rim protector and week side rim protector allowing them to not have to change coverage styles depending on who is out there but Cenac provides some promise in a switch everything defense. In a medium case scenario only one of them ends up being a rotational big, but at least that area of greatest need is covered. And in any worst case draft scenario draft philosophy/ approach doesnt matter so who cares if neither of them pan out.
In the case of taking Cenac/Steinbach and Momcilovic, you are addressing both areas of need and taking a relatively bigger boom or bust swing by taking Cenac/Steinbach over mullins and tempering that with an older steadier player in Momcilovic. Where in the best case scenario you have the ability to maintain defensive consistency when replacing Queta with Cenac in drop coverage, and Houser with Momcilovic in gaurding the wing that Brown isn't Guarding while maintaining similar shape on offense. In the medium case scenario, its most likely Momcilovic cant make enough of a case to have him replace Houser's bench minutes over more gaurd-like player in Gonzalez or Scheierman, instead and Cenac/Steinbach pans out but just more of a back up center/big forward and doesn't force Houser to the bench, you've still solved your biggest problem, and depending on health and matchups a tag team of Garza Cenac/Steinbach and Amari Williams can handle the Bigs bench duties.
The ultimate argument for taking both bigs besides a starting line up of D-White, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, a fully realized Cenac/Stenbach, and Neemias Queta, is that the celtics have shown recently their ability to develop bigs really well starting with Robert williams who was amazing pre injury and very similar to Cenac in a bunch of ways. Then with Luke Kornet who went from basically a bench riding bust after seeing his minutes decline 3 seasons in a row from his sophomore season to demanding full role player minutes on the best team in the east last year and the 2nd best team in the west this year averaging 20 mpg over those two seasons. Similarly the celtics took a no-name 39th over all pick going into his third season into a, in my opinion, top center in the league this year with embiid, davis, sabonis, KP, I-hart all hurt. Basically, with their history, we can expect the celtics to develop Cenac into what we all envision him being an ultra versatile rim protecting PF, and Veesar as well as Steinbach to be somewhat of the same. I think even if we have that same energy with Mullins' development, and his athleticism holds up to NBA standards and his shooting is as consistent as it could be, he could potentially take Sam Houser's spot in the lineup but at that point you are forcing Brown and Tatum onto tougher matchups because Sam has proven he can not kill you on the defensive end in switching onto 3s and 4s where I dont see that just due to frame and age with Mullins. In that case Mullins would have to be good enough offensively where he isn't so much a complimentary piece to Brown and Tatum but more of a load bearing peace so Brown and Tatum can expend more energy defensively, which i think is less likely than Cenac/Steinbach finding away to be complimentary to JT and JB on offense while standing on their own on defense.
Very interested as to hear the reasons you have players like Mara over Morez Johnson, jayden Quaintance, cenac and Steinbach, other than the fact that he's tall. Similarly Interested in hearing why you have Tarris Reed over Cenac and Steinbach.
Hey Elias we’ve had a big there in pretty much every mock and Mullins falling there would be way too good of value to pass up. Hugo is fantastic but more of a 2/3 tweener. Different player. Appreciate the support. - from a Celtics fan
Also why is Mara so damn high
Right I see that I see mullins as a fall but similarly it seems like cenac and steinbach are also falling and cenac more so. Regardless, Hugo being a 2-3 and mullins being 2 I don't think changes anything, they're still fighting for the same slots that White and brown leave. Is your take that Mullins out-competes Baylor and Hugo?